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Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Manila, 11 Jan. (AKI) - The Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF), the Philippines’ largest Muslim rebel group (photo), has announced it is ready for war, if attacked. The statement, made by Eid Kabalu, MILF military spokesman, is a response to a recent comment by interior and local government secretary Ronaldo Puno threatening to stop talks with the MILF."We are open to all possibilities. We have the right to defend ourselves in our homeland," Kabalu said, quoted by daily The Sun Star’on Friday. However, he asserted that war was the last resort.A day earlier, the MILF official website, Luwaran, cited Puno as saying: "If the MILF doesn't want our agreement, if they do not want to respect our Constitution, then let us stop negotiating and just continue with the war.”The rising tension follows the latest stumbling block that has, at least temporarily, halted peace talks between the two sides. In December, the MILF negotiating panel in Kuala Lumpur, for a round of consultations, refused to meet their government’s counterparts after they were presented a draft of a proposed memorandum of agreement that omitted most of the ‘consensus points’ on a homeland or 'ancestral domain' that two sides had previously agreed on. The consensus points – first agreed in October 2004 - allegedly include the boundaries of a new Muslim controlled homeland, its maritime borders and details of natural resource sharing with the central government. Manila’s condition that any agreement is implemented via constitutional means - meaning a referendum - especially angered the MILF. A proposal to expand the Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao (ARMM) from four to 14 provinces was rejected in a 2001 plebiscite. The ARMM is the current, Muslim-administered region in Mindanao. The Philippines is predominantly Catholic. Most of its approximately 4.5 million Muslims live in southern Mindanao and the Sulu Archipelago. The MILF was formed in 1977 and has since fought to establish and independent Muslim state in the region. MILF claim to have observed a cease-fire since 2003 although the Philippine government has attributed some terrorist attacks to the organisation.The MILF denies any involvement in terror attacks and claim that bombings attributed to them were committed by splinter groups not under their control. (http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/Assets/Imgs/Geografia/Filippine/MORO_MILF_REBEL--200x150.jpg)http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Security/?id=1.0.1759429095 (http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Security/?id=1.0.1759429095)
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: mondo bizzaro on January 11, 2008, 05:43:41 AM
Makes me wonder how long can the MILF sustain a yearlong conventional warfare. Manila should take steps in curbing the movements of Muslims outside of Mindanao, and halt movement of civilian males going out of Mindanao if this happens. Secondly, they should look into converts who'll be surely joining in or do some stupid stuff like urban terrorism in the cities inside and outside of Mindanao. Not to infringe on their civil liberties per se regarding freedom of movement. But just not let them go back to Mindanao in case they'll be going there as reinforcements. Those of military age at least.Secondly, the government should really emphasize this as a constitutional conflict and not be dragged down to a "religious" conflict which the MILF would really just want it to be. Doing so would cater to every nutjob Islamist to wage a jihad against the Philippines. That's more dangerous than anything. Then lastly, the government should inform the world. That what these people are asking for is a chunk of land which is more than just historically and emotionally linked to both Muslims and Christians alike.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: pearl21 on January 11, 2008, 06:05:08 AM
the government should only resume the peace talk once this MILF start to recognized the Philippines Constitution.......or else stop negotiating with this people, they only want power for themselves they are not representing the whole Filipino Muslims.......i have had several Muslim friends and they dont advocate war, violence and separatism, they just want to leave peacefully on go on with their lives.......This early they are already showing their true color, their homeland (really?) its Filipino's homeland not for them only......
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: hughdotoh on January 11, 2008, 09:49:39 AM
"Moro Islamic" pretty much means "Maranao only." So they can waste each other's clans. It is neither Moro nor Islamic. Just a few clans with a common death wish.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: 40niner_com on January 11, 2008, 05:20:42 PM
Another angle...Muslims March For Peace In Mindanao (http://zamboangajournal.blogspot.com/2008/01/muslims-march-for-peace-in-mindanao.html)MARAWI CITY, Philippines (Mindanao Examiner / Jan. 11, 2008) – About 20,000 people marched in Marawi City as the second leg of a peace rally kicked off in southern Philippines. The marchers, many chanting “Allahu Akbar” which means “God is Great,” came from the provinces of Lanao del Sur and Lanao del Norte and converged at the Tomas Cabili Plaza in the village of Banggolo. They also carried streamers and banners and many wearing shirts printed with the word “Allahu Akbar.” (http://www.mindanaoexaminer.com/gallery/20080110225122_2.jpg)It was the second leg of the series of Mindanao-wide peace rally led by the Consortium of Bangsamoro Civil Society (CBCS), a network of 164 Moro civil society organizations in Mindanao. The Ranaw Regional Management Committee of CBCS, led by Aenodin Cali, organized the rally in Marawi. “The failure of peace agreements in the past can be attributed mainly to the non-participation of the Bangsamoro people, because non-participation means they do not own a peace agreement,” said Abdullah Dalidig, of the Islamic Movement for Electoral Reform and Good Governance (IMERGG) and Muslim Multi-sectoral Movement for Peace and Development (MMMPD). “As real stakeholders, their collective voice should be basis of authority and the last word in the solution of the problem.” “The consequences of war in Mindanao have been very painful and costly. More than 150,000 people died and 100,000 were estimated to be injured. Millions were displaced from their homes and several hundred thousands, including more than 200,000 Bangsamoro who sought refuge in the Malaysian State of Sabah have not returned home,” Dalidig said. Anwar Saluwang, deputy secretary-general of United Youth for Peace and Development (UNYPAD), an organization of Muslim youths based in Cotabato City called for the immediate return to the negotiating table of both the Philippine government and Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) peace panels. “We the Bangsamoro in Central Mindanao feel exactly what is felt by people in Ranaw. The Government should not wait for the Bangsamoro people to become the Bangsamoro Armed Forces,” he cited. Saluwang was there with the Marawi-based members of UNYPAD. The first leg of the peace rally was held in Cotabato City and participated by some 30,000 people from Maguindanao, Shariff Kabunsuan, and North Cotabato provinces. “The Bangsamoro does not belong to the MILF or the MNLF (Moro National Liberation Front) but the MILF and the MNLF belong to the Bangsamoro people,” said Sammy Maulana, Secretary-General of CBCS. The marchers urged the government and MILF peace negotiators to resume negotiations after talks stalled last month over the issue of the Muslim ancestral domain which will constitute a separate homeland in Mindanao. (With a report from Consortium Maulana)
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Ignatius1 on January 11, 2008, 05:29:04 PM
It is amazing how unashamedly tribal the mentality is in that region. I know the notion of progress is not the same for everyone; but goodness gracious! I remember reading about how unwelcome US forces are in the area because of "memories" from over a hundred years ago. Memories!! Another news article from BBC talked about wanting revenge!! It is definitely time to draw the line between those who want to live in peace as Filipinos and those who seek to live in conflict. The Philippines, from Batanes in the North to Jolo in the South, is and should always be for all Filipinos be they Tagalog, Ilocano, Visayan, or Bangsamoro!!Perhaps it is time for all Filipinos to deal with this issue once and for all. Let the issue be decided by force of arms between Filipinos and MILF separatists/thugs/criminals!!
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Ignatius1 on January 11, 2008, 05:36:39 PM
From Nonviolent Peaceforcehttp://www.nonviolentpeaceforce.org/cbcsjul2007STATEMENT OF UNITY AND SOLIDARITY:A CALL FOR PEACE, SOBRIETY AND RESTRAINTBismilahir Rahmanir Rahim.Assalamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Ta’ala Wabarakatuhu!When the Peace Talks was forged between the government and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF), the peoples of Mindanao subsequently became hopeful that a just and lasting peace would finally reign in their land.Bearing this common aspiration of the people in mind, both the GRP and the MILF peace panels strived hard to carry their respective mandates and missions to reach several milestones in the on-going peace process. Foremost among these is the Agreement on the General Cessation of Hostilities signed last July 18, 1997 at Cagayan De Oro City, which serves as the basic foundation of the peace talks. These milestones deserve appreciation.When the Peace Talks experienced an impasse, both the government and the MILF peace panels had asserted and assured the people that the mechanisms which have been jointly established on the ground have remained and will continue to remain in full force and effect.As stakeholders of peace, we have savored and treasured all the gains reached by the peace talks so far. As such, we have become morally and legally obligated to preserve these gains as our peace dividends and for the future generations.Like others, we are also saddened by the armed confrontation between the Armed Forces of the Philippines and the MILF Forces in Tipo-Tipo, Basilan on July 10, 2007. If only the military hierarchy had respected and abided by the Ceasefire Agreement, this painful, horrible and costly incident would never have taken place.As we join others in extending our empathy and heartfelt condolences to the bereaved family of Ustadz Matarul Hakim Alkanul, who was beheaded an hour prior to the military operations, and also to the families of the Marines who were killed in that encounter, we also declare our collective abhorrence to any terrorist action perpetrated against innocent civilians, specifically those in Tipo-Tipo, and vehemently condemn those who are responsible for both incidents in the highest manner!Like the Midsayap War in North Cotabato, the Tipo-Tipo Armed Encounter between the Armed Forces of the Philippines and the MILF Forces must be regarded and treated as an isolated case and must not erode the gains painstakingly attained by the GRP-MILF Peace Negotiations. It must not cripple the growing chance for a resumption of the GRP-MILF Peace Process and to eventually accomplish its mandate of seeking a viable solution to the centuries-old Mindanao conflict.We, the undersigned leaders of the Consortium of Bangsamoro Civil Society, Inc., therefore, make the following assertions with the highest conviction: 1. First, we call on the government to suspend any military action in Basilan and other parts of Mindanao and instead allow the GRP and MILF Coordinating Committee on the Cessation of Hostilities (CCCH) to immediately conduct an impartial probe on the incidents to identify the real perpetrators and bring them to the bar of justice, as per mandated by the GRP-MILF Ceasefire Agreement; 2. Second, to prevent the occurrence of this eventuality, we strongly urge HE Gloria Macapagal Arroyo in her dual capacity as “Civilian President” and “Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Philippines” to order the immediate pull-out of pursuing military troops, who are about to undertake “punitive actions” against the alleged perpetrators to diffuse tension, pre-empt the possible eruption of war, and avert its escalation to other parts of Mindanao, as well as the subsequent perpetration of widespread human rights violations; 3. Third, we also enjoin all Moro and Non-Moro civil society organizations and networks, the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines, the Bishops-Ulama Conference, concerned LGUs, as well as all other sectors of society who have a common vision of a just and lasting peace in Mindanao to unite themselves in urging the government to settle the Basilan Crisis in a civilized and peaceful manner; 4. Fourth, we issue this heartfelt appeal to our brothers and sisters in Luzon, Visayas and the rest of Mindanao to objectively understand the Basilan Crisis and the kidnapping of Fr. Bossi. Let us not to be derailed or unduly influenced by the unnecessary “sensationalization” of this issue by some parties with questionable interests. The Bangsamoro and the Filipinos have suffered enough from centuries-old animosities. Let us continue to build peace together in the Philippines in general and in Mindanao in particular; 5. Finally, we urge the international community, through their local embassies, to make diplomatic pressure on both the government and the MILF to exercise maximum restraint in order to avoid military actions that will endanger the peace process and further displace the communities from their economic and social base.Enough is enough! We cannot afford to add more Internally Displaced People in our homeland. They are still suffering from the aftermath of seemingly unending wars. We cannot anymore afford to increase the number of children of war and widows of wars, whose hearts still bleed and are still waiting for justice for the death of loved ones.Enough is enough! Onward with peace!Adopted and signed in Pagadian City, this 23rd day of July 2007.(Sgd.)NATHAN INSUNGChairperson, Regional Mgmt CommitteeCBCS – Zambas Region(Sgd.)SULTAN MAGUID A. MARUHOMChairperson, Regional Mgmt CommitteeCBCS – Sibugay Region(Sgd.)DATU AMENODIN T. CALIChairperson, Regional Mgmt CommitteeCBCS – Ranaw Region(Sgd.)TIMOJEN TULAWIEChairperson, Regional Mgmt CommitteeCBCS – Sulu Region(Sgd.)USTADZ RAHIB KUDTOChairperson, Regional Mgmt CommitteeCBCS – Kutawato Region(Sgd.)OSCAR SULAIMANChairperson, Regional Mgmt CommitteeCBCS – Rajah Buayan Region(Sgd.)SAMMY BUATChairperson, Regional Mgmt CommitteeCBCS – Dabaw Region(Sgd.)SAMMY P. MAULANAActing Secretary-General/Human Right and Justice OfficerCBCS Central OfficePagadian City23 July 2007CBCS/7/23/07The Consortium of Bangsamoro Civil society is a solidarity network of Bangsamoro NGOs and POs and other civil society organizations committed to a more sustained advocacy for Peace, Human Rights, Good Governance and Development. It is a network that engenders cooperation, collaboration and coordination among Moro civil society organizations in facing the challenges of creating a peaceful and just society.Note the item in bold. It seems they don't consider themselves Filipinos. If it is indeed the case - then I fear the situation will deteriorate into full scale civil war with Malaysia and Indonesia stepping in on behalf of the Bangsamoro. The GRP needs to effectively engage the US and Australia ASAP!!
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Adroth on January 11, 2008, 06:05:17 PM
Quote from: Ignatius1 on January 11, 2008, 05:36:39 PM
Note the item in bold. It seems they don't consider themselves Filipinos.In these people's minds, the term "Filipino" refers to the Christians in the north who were subjugated by the Spanish. They also consider the Christians living in the south as mere transients, who are simply waiting for the time or an incentive to return "home". A self-serving assertion that those of us who were born and grew up in Mindanao reject vehemently.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: mondo bizzaro on January 11, 2008, 07:05:22 PM
I lifted my own words from another tread with similar interests:THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BANGSAMORO!!!!There has never been a Moro Nation. There is what they call in Arabic - the "Ullemah" or Islamic nation - a kind of Islamic utopia in an abstract sense.MORO, again, is derived from the Spanish word which mean "moor" which is what they called the dark skinned Arabs and African Muslims that conquered the south of Spain which they called Andalusia. When the Spanish came to the Philippines and found that there's these small dark skinned Muslims - then the "moro" word came into use again.So the word in itself is supposed to be an insult - a derogatory term in the same course as the word "indio".Bangsamoro is a FAKE.It's a concept the so called "royalty & nobility" of the various warring Muslim tribes created to unite themselves. However selfish ambitions will never make this dream materialize.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: SIG_P210 on January 11, 2008, 07:52:49 PM
(Groan) Can we afford another war in Mindanao? What's so frustrating, is that w/ positive news here & there about development & the economy, there are just so many other POSITIVE things that could be done instead of doing something negative like going to war.Why the heck do the muslim people allow jackas_es in their society to continue to bully them to going their way of war? They can't keep tolerating those people, just because they are muslims also. THEY HAVE TO DRAW THE LINE. I wonder if some of Iraq's lessons could be applied in Mindanao in case of war. What worries me more, though, is the COST the war is going to cost. Money that could've been used better elsewhere, like Health, Education or Housing.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: philippinestoday on January 11, 2008, 09:47:13 PM
Quote from: SIG_P210 on January 11, 2008, 07:52:49 PM
(Groan) Can we afford another war in Mindanao? Today..I think Mindanao cannot afford a war..If during the 2000 war the MILF was eradicated, both its military and political organization then mindanao would not have the present problem it has.From the look of things the MILF problem here in mindanao has grown into other areas of society. first there is the MILF as the military arm, a political org (forgot the name), and this time a civilian organization that somehow has the support of all the tribes (maranao, et all)..But I do concur that when they say MORO its just the Maranao's..The maranao and tausugs are the hot headed tribes here..the tribe here in davao (not the immigrants, pointing out to the local muslim tribe) are not to keen in war, but since during and after the 2000 war, refugess from war torn areas immigrated here and assimilated to the society bringing in not only their families but also their culture and beliefs..and also more and more pirated VCD's/DVD's to davao. The problem with them is that the culture they have are governed by their religion..our's are free will..(correct me if im mistaken)in the article "Muslims March For Peace In Mindanao" there is just one statement that intrigues me
Quote
The Government should not wait for the Bangsamoro people to become the Bangsamoro Armed Forces,If they really want peace then they themselves should prevent themselves from being an armed group..and on the article "STATEMENT OF UNITY AND SOLIDARITY: A CALL FOR PEACE, SOBRIETY AND RESTRAINT"
Quote
1. First, we call on the government to suspend any military action in Basilan and other parts of Mindanao and instead allow the GRP and MILF Coordinating Committee on the Cessation of Hostilities (CCCH) to immediately conduct an impartial probe on the incidents to identify the real perpetrators and bring them to the bar of justice, as per mandated by the GRP-MILF Ceasefire Agreement; 2. Second, to prevent the occurrence of this eventuality, we strongly urge HE Gloria Macapagal Arroyo in her dual capacity as “Civilian President” and “Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Philippines” to order the immediate pull-out of pursuing military troops, who are about to undertake “punitive actions” against the alleged perpetrators to diffuse tension, pre-empt the possible eruption of war, and avert its escalation to other parts of Mindanao, as well as the subsequent perpetration of widespread human rights violations; 3. Third, we also enjoin all Moro and Non-Moro civil society organizations and networks, the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines, the Bishops-Ulama Conference, concerned LGUs, as well as all other sectors of society who have a common vision of a just and lasting peace in Mindanao to unite themselves in urging the government to settle the Basilan Crisis in a civilized and peaceful manner; 4. Fourth, we issue this heartfelt appeal to our brothers and sisters in Luzon, Visayas and the rest of Mindanao to objectively understand the Basilan Crisis and the kidnapping of Fr. Bossi. Let us not to be derailed or unduly influenced by the unnecessary “sensationalization” of this issue by some parties with questionable interests. The Bangsamoro and the Filipinos have suffered enough from centuries-old animosities. Let us continue to build peace together in the Philippines in general and in Mindanao in particular; 5. Finally, we urge the international community, through their local embassies, to make diplomatic pressure on both the government and the MILF to exercise maximum restraint in order to avoid military actions that will endanger the peace process and further displace the communities from their economic and social base.1. Looks like they cannot appeal to themselves to adhere to the Cease fire agreement. Because they are just asking the government, they should have also asked their own selves..2. Pulling the troops out cannot be done, because the military has a constitutional mandate to protect the country and its people. Regardless of religion or culture. And Mindanao is part of the republic, the areas controlled (somehow) by the MILF are part of the republic therefore it is the MILF that should pull out its forces and moved it out of the country..3. ...........4. Understand the kidnapping?? are they saying the we just forget about it? kidnapping regardless of its reason is still kidnapping..murder is still murder regardless of intentions. 5. Diplomatic pressure...?? They are very assuming..?!@# I think the government should educate the educated world on the real deal here in Mindanao..The foreign department should exhaust all means to let the world know what we are dealing with.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: count montedegallo on January 11, 2008, 10:11:28 PM
Quote
2. Second, to prevent the occurrence of this eventuality, we strongly urge HE Gloria Macapagal Arroyo in her dual capacity as “Civilian President” and “Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Philippines” to order the immediate pull-out of pursuing military troops, who are about to undertake “punitive actions” against the alleged perpetrators to diffuse tension, pre-empt the possible eruption of war, and avert its escalation to other parts of Mindanao, as well as the subsequent perpetration of widespread human rights violations;no. 2 looks very suspicious to me. without the afp troops there the rebel forces would just take over and do what they did before - harass the christian population and force everyone else to join them in their secessionist efforts. plus, the tribes would just explode into inter-tribal warfare again. the muslims in mindanao think they can govern themselves. the fact is they can't because there's one basic thing they can't even do, i.e., agree and live peacefully among themselves.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Inspector on January 11, 2008, 11:14:34 PM
Quote from: 40niner_com on January 11, 2008, 05:20:42 PM
b]The Ranaw Regional Management Committee of CBCS, led by Aenodin Cali, organized the rally in Marawi. “The failure of peace agreements in the past can be attributed mainly to the non-participation of the Bangsamoro people, because non-participation means they do not own a peace agreement,” said Abdullah Dalidig, of the Islamic Movement for Electoral Reform and Good Governance (IMERGG) and Muslim Multi-sectoral Movement for Peace and Development (MMMPD). “As real stakeholders, their collective voice should be basis of authority and the last word in the solution of the problem.” “The consequences of war in Mindanao have been very painful and costly. More than 150,000 people died and 100,000 were estimated to be injured. Millions were displaced from their homes and several hundred thousands, including more than 200,000 Bangsamoro who sought refuge in the Malaysian State of Sabah have not returned home,” Dalidig said. Anwar Saluwang, deputy secretary-general of United Youth for Peace and Development (UNYPAD), an organization of Muslim youths based in Cotabato City called for the immediate return to the negotiating table of both the Philippine government and Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) peace panels. “We the Bangsamoro in Central Mindanao feel exactly what is felt by people in Ranaw. The Government should not wait for the Bangsamoro people to become the Bangsamoro Armed Forces,” he cited. Saluwang was there with the Marawi-based members of UNYPAD. The first leg of the peace rally was held in Cotabato City and participated by some 30,000 people from Maguindanao, Shariff Kabunsuan, and North Cotabato provinces. “The Bangsamoro does not belong to the MILF or the MNLF (Moro National Liberation Front) but the MILF and the MNLF belong to the Bangsamoro people,” said Sammy Maulana, Secretary-General of CBCS. The marchers urged the government and MILF peace negotiators to resume negotiations after talks stalled last month over the issue of the Muslim ancestral domain which will constitute a separate homeland in Mindanao. (With a report from Consortium Maulana)Anak ng fufu 30,000 ka tao :eyes: oh really?the plaza is so small and yet its not full nor traffic was affected lucky for you people sema is the mayor if not get out of the town make your rally in marawi sama ninyo na si father mercado. Cotabato city is still a survivor it is still part of region 12 courtesy of ramos :afro: treachery many of whom voted him there.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Inspector on January 11, 2008, 11:27:13 PM
Quote from: mondo bizzaro on January 11, 2008, 05:43:41 AM
Makes me wonder how long can the MILF sustain a yearlong conventional warfare. Manila should take steps in curbing the movements of Muslims outside of Mindanao, and halt movement of civilian males going out of Mindanao if this happens. Secondly, they should look into converts who'll be surely joining in or do some stupid stuff like urban terrorism in the cities inside and outside of Mindanao. Not to infringe on their civil liberties per se regarding freedom of movement. But just not let them go back to Mindanao in case they'll be going there as reinforcements. Those of military age at least.Secondly, the government should really emphasize this as a constitutional conflict and not be dragged down to a "religious" conflict which the MILF would really just want it to be. Doing so would cater to every nutjob Islamist to wage a jihad against the Philippines. That's more dangerous than anything. Then lastly, the government should inform the world. That what these people are asking for is a chunk of land which is more than just historically and emotionally linked to both Muslims and Christians alike.that cant be they have rights you know just like all of us, besides that would alienate the majority of them who are just routine people.they are agitating their mass base support, its all part of diplomacy. the important question is did they re-arm , re-organize and to what extent if ever but seriously its doubtfull if they have significantly though they could have there are peace generals appointed in the area to apiece their clamor for more moderates and understanding afp officers.There are less encounters than before with less agressive military posture on them at least to the POV of some people like me.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: mondo bizzaro on January 11, 2008, 11:35:04 PM
Quote from: Inspector on January 11, 2008, 11:27:13 PM
that cant be they have rights you know just like all of us, besides that would alienate the majority of them who are just routine people.they are agitating their mass base support, its all part of diplomacy. the important question is did they re-arm , re-organize and to what extent if ever but seriously its doubtfull if they have significantly though they could have there are peace generals appointed in the area to apiece their clamor for more moderates and understanding afp officers.There are less encounters than before with less agressive military posture on them at least to the POV of some people like me.In a war, some things have to give in.
Quote
Not to infringe on their civil liberties per se regarding freedom of movement. But just not let them go back to Mindanao in case they'll be going there as reinforcements. Those of military age at least.
Quote from: Inspector on January 11, 2008, 11:14:34 PM
Anak ng fufu 30,000 ka tao :eyes: oh really?the plaza is so small and yet its not full nor traffic was affected lucky for you people sema is the mayor if not get out of the town make your rally in marawi sama ninyo na si father mercado. Cotabato city is still a survivor it is still part of region 12 courtesy of ramos :afro: treachery many of whom voted him there.Kindly ask this lady too. Leticia Ramos Shahani. She's got as much to do with selling Mindanao for votes as any other moron.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: israeli on January 12, 2008, 12:03:03 AM
i still do not get the logic of the GRP as to why it still talks peace with the never sincere Islamofascists. we keep on letting that venomous snake go half dead instead of killing it for good when we know for a fact that a half dead snake has a more powerful and more fatal venom. :angry:
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Pachada on January 12, 2008, 12:07:49 AM
relax guys,the milf, mnlf or ASG cannot wage sustained warfare without large stocks of ammo which comes from 2 sources:arms smuggled by sea or bought from corrupt AFP personnelseaborne arms smuggling is supposed to be taken cared of by coast watch south with surface radar stations watching the mindanao coastline. the mindanao coastline has better radar coverage than at anytime in the history of the moro rebellion although there are still gaps or loopholes thru which arms smugglers can pass through. hopefully , coast watch south will be fully implemented.all the govt has to do is continue speak softly(diplomacy) to the moros so that middle eastern countries and UN will think that we want peace, but at same time we must carry a big stick(coast watch south), and to continue winning over moderate moros by giving them jobs and opportunities(divide and rule) thereby isolating little by little those moros who want to resort to violent means. Patience is a virtue.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: israeli on January 12, 2008, 12:19:04 AM
we cannot be forever reactive, Pachada. we really have to annihilate the Islamofascists FOR GOOD, BY ALL MEANS AND AT ALL COSTS. if the world condemns us for annihilating the threats to the sovereignty of the Republic of the Philippines and its people, so be it.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: erwin_2lfu on January 12, 2008, 02:00:36 AM
Quote from: israeli on January 12, 2008, 12:19:04 AM
we cannot be forever reactive, Pachada. we really have to annihilate the Islamofascists FOR GOOD, BY ALL MEANS AND AT ALL COSTS. if the world condemns us for annihilating the threats to the sovereignty of the Republic of the Philippines and its people, so be it.Given the saber rattling of the MILF, its time for the government to show some teeth too.Let the Islamofascists cross the line......and lets see kung sino ang mapupulbos :2rifles:
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Inspector on January 12, 2008, 03:26:39 AM
Quote from: mondo bizzaro on January 11, 2008, 11:35:04 PM
In a war, some things have to give in. Kindly ask this lady too. Leticia Ramos Shahani. She's got as much to do with selling Mindanao for votes as any other moron. Good for you sir mondo bizyour precious davao is alive full with invesment and full of night life i wonder what would happen however unlikely if it will be incorporated in ARMMas another province or what maybe they can find enclaves where there are some majority.oh yes that lady ramos will also be rembered as up to no good anyway more like who make new name for mindanao, instead of plain mindanao it's now muslim mindanao or christian mindanao..etcc that ramos surname here will never be forgoten specially the people who are old enough to vote by 1996, he sold the city out to mnlf with a promise of general peace and development and the surrounding provinces. Many times of perennial plebicites have been brought on places they want to incorporate in the expanded ARMM which had 4 provinces only because many voted no including muslim majority areas when it was first conceive.Thru ramos political manuevering and pressure among local politicians many mnlf commanders won election including misuari thus a new beginnig of the larger ARMM but still many groups wont be satified even the mnlf itself which broke into 2 major factions and nobody will ever be.Even with an mnlf mayor Cotabato city have constantly voted no in the many plebicites that have been brought upon even after all its surrounding are now officialy under ARMM in fact its the regional capital although this city is outside of its jurisdiction, and its not vibrant like before in fact in the 90s it had 5 cinema now barely 2 were operating its geting boring everyday thats why most of its residents go to davao city or gensan for life styles. So were are the peace and development ramos promised, the thing is even you put murad there as governor with all the provinces he wants he cant possibly satisfy all the people out there especially the armed groups to lay down their arms and appoint them in juicy goverment positions or give them all the jobs.The one thing that curtles development is the proliferation of illegal firearms why dont just the goverment double or quadrouble its efforts and get it all.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: mondo bizzaro on January 12, 2008, 03:49:49 AM
Quote from: Inspector on January 12, 2008, 03:26:39 AM
Good for you sir mondo bizyour precious davao is alive full with invesment and full of night life i wonder what would happen however unlikely if it will be incorporated in ARMMas another province or what maybe they can find enclaves where there are some majority.oh yes that lady ramos will also be rembered as up to no good anyway more like who make new name for mindanao, instead of plain mindanao it's now muslim mindanao or christian mindanao..etcc that ramos surname here will never be forgoten specially the people who are old enough to vote by 1996, he sold the city out to mnlf with a promise of general peace and development and the surrounding provinces. Many times of perennial plebicites have been brought on places they want to incorporate in the expanded ARMM which had 4 provinces only because many voted no including muslim majority areas when it was first conceive.Thru ramos political manuevering and pressure among local politicians many mnlf commanders won election including misuari thus a new beginnig of the larger ARMM but still many groups wont be satified even the mnlf itself which broke into 2 major factions and nobody will ever be.Even with an mnlf mayor Cotabato city have constantly voted no in the many plebicites that have been brought upon even after all its surrounding are now officialy under ARMM in fact its the regional capital although this city is outside of its jurisdiction, and its not vibrant like before in fact in the 90s it had 5 cinema now barely 2 were operating its geting boring everyday thats why most of its residents go to davao city or gensan for life styles. So were are the peace and development ramos promised, the thing is even you put murad there as governor with all the provinces he wants he cant possibly satisfy all the people out there especially the armed groups to lay down their arms and appoint them in juicy goverment positions or give them all the jobs.The one thing that curtles development is the proliferation of illegal firearms why dont just the goverment double or quadrouble its efforts and get it all.Did you stop to think before you wrote about my precious succesful Davao that any escalating armed conflict will eventually affect it too as well as the whole country? My family alone is spread throughout Mindanao from Surigao to Zamboanga, including Cotabato and Bukidnon where 2 uncles own farms. Dont think of singling me out with half coherent ramblings. We all have suffered. How many times have I told this story of our land in Tagum being invaded by Muslim bandits same as with my uncle who lost 2 sons fighting the Muslims in Cotabato and Iligan that's besides another cousin losing a leg defending their property from theiving NPA. Our family is invested in Mindanao. Besides being born and raised there. My sisters own business in CDO and Cotabato. I own property in CDO & Davao. My mother owns land in Davao, Tagum, Cotabato, Pagadian and Misamis. We have as much to loose in a war. But to have a cowardly peace is even much more unbearable. No dude. You don't know where I'm coming from. Don't think that I'm a distant commentator becaues I'm abroad.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: predator on January 12, 2008, 04:05:30 AM
Quote from: erwin_2lfu on January 12, 2008, 02:00:36 AM
Given the saber rattling of the MILF, its time for the government to show some teeth too.Let the Islamofascists cross the line......and lets see kung sino ang mapupulbos :2rifles:Why wait? they've done it before ... I hope the govt will plan carefully like dictating the time of war ... like aquiring first the 6 night helicopters, increase AFP troops and other hardwares that in the pipeline ... before ending the PEACETALKS.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Inspector on January 12, 2008, 04:25:23 AM
ok SIR MoNdz no harm done besides its only a reply and i still dont get :shock: it how you got annoyed or upset.All those things you wrote well i just learned it as i read it today in the tread sowi. i my self have some sad stories but anyway its not the topic.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: SIG_P210 on January 12, 2008, 08:00:53 AM
Just curious, to the soldiers here in this forum, just an honest opinion: 1) If you were to go to war w/ the MILF / MNLF now, how would you go about it to get a decisive victory against them? 2) What additional resources will be needed to bring about that decisive victory?
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: citizend13 on January 12, 2008, 10:54:28 AM
Sir mondo I understand you completely. I was born in Davao city and raised in Tagum (wasn't a city yet back then) I have family all over the place (2 cousins are rangers) I have family in kidapawan city too. A war would put them all at risk and from my perspective that is unacceptable. However, if you think about it, all this crap wouldn't happen if the Government were decisive in it's actions. One year they launch an offensive the next year they go for peace talks then revert to war again. They should choose one path and stick to it until it no longer becomes viable. We've been having peace talks on and off for years.. Is it working? Obviously not! The two sides have been over and over the same issues again and have come to no conclusion.. The instability of the regions are stumping economic growth. Who would want to invest in land which is mired in conflict? If I put aside my feelings about my family being in danger, I would say the obvious choice is a full scale military offensive. Pursue them until they agree to disband/disarm. A well planned and well executed operation will probably succeed. (if I were a crazy general I'd bring the entire army, navy and airforce down there and use brute force) Down side is there would be a lot of fall out. Peace lovers would look for someone to crucify, There would be civilians displaced, there would be a lot of splinter groups who would take advantage of the situation and there would be a lot of dead bodies. they would probably claim that it is a religious conflict and thats a whole new ball game.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Ignatius1 on January 12, 2008, 12:33:57 PM
My Email to the CBCS Secretariat:I was reading with hopeful anticipation the Statement of Unity and Solidarity: A Call for Peace, Sobriety, and Restraint (Signed in Pagadian City on 23 July 2007). My hope turned to dismay when I reached this line in assertion number four: "The Bangsamoro and the Filipinos have suffered enough from centuries-old animosities."It appears that the Bangsamoro do not consider themselves Filipinos. No wonder there has not been peace. Filipino Soldiers and Marines have been fighting in Mindanao for Filipinos - which I think they sincerely believe includes the Bangsamoro. It would probably help if this identity crisis be clarified. I think it would cause a paradigm shift - hopefully towards a unified Filipino nation (Luzon, Visayas, and Mindanao).Wishing For Peace,Ignatius LoyolaTheir Response:Greetings of peace! We appreciate your astute observation. That is correct. The Bangsamoro people has an "aversion" to being identified as part of the Filipino body politic. It is because the Bangsamoro never felt a sense of belongingness of being part of the citizenry of the Philippines from the very start. If you would just look carefully at the historical background why such a view is commonly carried by the Bangsamoro people, you would see and appreciate that, from the Spanish colonization period, to the American colonization period, to the period of independence, and upto the present contemporary time, the Bangsamoro people have always been short changed, marginalized and treated as second class citizens of this country, much in the same way as the negroes were treated by the whites in the USA and in South Africa. At the time that the USA had planned to give the Philippines its independence in the late 1940's, the Bangsamoro had made several declarations calling for the retainment of Mindanao as a colony of the US. It was generally preferred to remain a colony and be given its own independence later on, than be lumped as one with Luzon and Visayas. One such declaration is the Dansalan Declaration. This and many others are proof enough that the Bangsamoro do not identify themselves as Filipionos. Mindanao historically belongs to the Bangsamoro people. They are endemic to this land. They had a thriving civilization here centuries prior to colonization. Their sovereignty is legitimate. Now like the North American Indian tribes, their lands have been taken away from them. Their ancestral domain is now settled in by the majority, whether by subterfuge, coercion, blackmail. Without their consent and knowledge, their lands were titled and mostly redistributed to the Filipinos from Luzon and Visayas. And now multinational corporations had also taken over most of the lands of Mindanao. All of these in the name of a culturally insensitive and popularly unresponsive push for "development." Their right to live their lives according to their culture as an indigenous people, their right to live in peace in their homeland as Muslims, and their right to freely determine on their own the direction towards which they would like to go, has been deprived from them. Their way of life as Muslims has long been under threat. The Bangsamoro have no aversion against development. As long as development is introduced in such as way as their cultural identity as indigenous peoples of Mindanao and their way of life as Muslims are respected and protected. But this has not been the case for centuries now. Hence, their centuries long struggle. In conclusion, the Bangsamoro would like to keep their identity intact, if nobody would mind. They had been working and even fighting for its preservation for centuries. And they more than deserve to keep it. Besides, the name of the country, "Philippines" is not quite a good name. This country was named after a bad Spanish king. (Philip II). So therefore, it can be imputed in one way that the "Filipinos" are people of that bad Spanish king. The burden of having an identity crisis is not on the Bangsamoro. It is on the Filipino. Thank you and more power. CBCS Secretariat
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: monsy on January 12, 2008, 01:22:39 PM
Quote from: Ignatius1 on January 12, 2008, 12:33:57 PM
Besides, the name of the country, "Philippines" is not quite a good name. This country was named after a bad Spanish king. (Philip II). So therefore, it can be imputed in one way that the "Filipinos" are people of that bad Spanish king. The burden of having an identity crisis is not on the Bangsamoro. It is on the Filipino.well, we can always change the name, say PINOYKISTAN? :Dseriously, what do you think of the possibility that there will be an independent muslim state in mindanao? from my little knowledge of mindanao christians is still the majority, but most of them came from visayas and luzon. in other words they are not the original inhabitants there. what i feared most is a east timor style intervention of the international community. what do you think guys?
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: count montedegallo on January 12, 2008, 09:52:59 PM
the claim that mindanao has always been a "territory" belonging to the Muslim tribal Filipinos is wrong and inaccurate.there are a lot of tribal and native peoples in mindanao that are NOT Muslim. tribal people like the mandayas, the manobos, the bagobos, even the people in north and south surigao are not and have never been muslims.the language of these people are close to or variants of what we call CEBUANO VISAYAN which is actually a MISNOMER because these people did not come from the physical island of Cebu. Such is the case also of the vast majority of OTHER so called CEBUANO-SPEAKING people in a vast area of mindanao: zamboanga del norte, zamboanga del sur, misamis oriental, misamis occidental, bukidnon, agusan del norte, agusan del sur, a greater part of lanao del norte, some parts of lanao del sur, davao oriental, davao occidental, davao del sur, the cotabato provinces - a vast majority of these people DID NOT COME FROM CEBU BUT ARE NATIVES OF MINDANAO!A lot of Filipinos make the mistake of grouping them under the category of CEBUANOS because they speak CEBUANO-VISAYAN WHICH IS A MISNOMER.The BISAYA (maragsa not malumi, as the Tagalogs incorrectly pronounce it) language (yes, it is a LANGUAGE) DID NOT come from the present province of CEBU but came from BORNEO which was the seat of the then Shri-Vishayan Empire (Empire of the Sari-Bisaya) thus the name Visayan or BISAYA (maragsa).So, when migrations from the Empire of Sari-Bisaya left Borneo, they came to settle in a lot of areas in present day Mindanao, Cebu, Bohol, Southern Leyte, Siquijor, Negros Oriental, some parts of Negros Occidental, and some parts of Masbate (I think). Even the Bicol language is more closely akin to Cebuano-Visayan than it is to Tagalog, not to mention Ilonggo or Hiligaynon.Bottom line: the Cebuano-Visayan speaking peoples of Mindanao are mostly NOT from Cebu but have always been NATIVES OF MINDANAO!
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: mavewrick2007 on January 12, 2008, 09:56:26 PM
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The burden of having an identity crisis is not on the Bangsamoro. It is on the Filipino.Who ??? me !! no way...Still a full blooded Pinoy.. :2pistols: :2pistols:
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: mavewrick2007 on January 12, 2008, 10:42:11 PM
Clash of civilization in our backyard . Let them govern for themselves since Muslims normally followed Islamic laws. But first we have to amend our form of government to federal republic.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: mondo bizzaro on January 12, 2008, 11:44:37 PM
Quote from: count montedegallo on January 12, 2008, 09:52:59 PM
the claim that mindanao has always been a "territory" belonging to the Muslim tribal Filipinos is wrong and inaccurate.there are a lot of tribal and native peoples in mindanao that are NOT Muslim. tribal people like the mandayas, the manobos, the bagobos, even the people in north and south surigao are not and have never been muslims.the language of these people are close to or variants of what we call CEBUANO VISAYAN which is actually a MISNOMER because these people did not come from the physical island of Cebu. Such is the case also of the vast majority of OTHER so called CEBUANO-SPEAKING people in a vast area of mindanao: zamboanga del norte, zamboanga del sur, misamis oriental, misamis occidental, bukidnon, agusan del norte, agusan del sur, a greater part of lanao del norte, some parts of lanao del sur, davao oriental, davao occidental, davao del sur, the cotabato provinces - a vast majority of these people DID NOT COME FROM CEBU BUT ARE NATIVES OF MINDANAO!A lot of Filipinos make the mistake of grouping them under the category of CEBUANOS because they speak CEBUANO-VISAYAN WHICH IS A MISNOMER.The BISAYA (maragsa not malumi, as the Tagalogs incorrectly pronounce it) language (yes, it is a LANGUAGE) DID NOT come from the present province of CEBU but came from BORNEO which was the seat of the then Shri-Vishayan Empire (Empire of the Sari-Bisaya) thus the name Visayan or BISAYA (maragsa).So, when migrations from the Empire of Sari-Bisaya left Borneo, they came to settle in a lot of areas in present day Mindanao, Cebu, Bohol, Southern Leyte, Siquijor, Negros Oriental, some parts of Negros Occidental, and some parts of Masbate (I think). Even the Bicol language is more closely akin to Cebuano-Visayan than it is to Tagalog, not to mention Ilonggo or Hiligaynon.Bottom line: the Cebuano-Visayan speaking peoples of Mindanao are mostly NOT from Cebu but have always been NATIVES OF MINDANAO! :jeez: The problem of educating and re-educating people. This is all because our moronic DECS or whatever it was called since 60 years ago DID NOT TEACH US PROPER & ACCURATE HISTORY. I'm gonna go home and beat Zaide...............!#$^#%&$%*%^*
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: hughdotoh on January 13, 2008, 12:00:35 AM
It's not a Muslim thing. It's not even about independence. It's a crowd of some clans wanting to lord it and fronting a claim for Islam. No identity crisis here, because there are Muslims who don't approve of the MILF.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: mondo bizzaro on January 13, 2008, 12:07:33 AM
Quote from: hughdotoh on January 13, 2008, 12:00:35 AM
It's not a Muslim thing. It's not even about independence. It's a crowd of some clans wanting to lord it and fronting a claim for Islam. No identity crisis here, because there are Muslims who don't approve of the MILF.It's not really about us. It's about the world community who will judge our actions. So far, the "BANGSAMOROns" are quite successful selling their fairytale to the outside like the rest of the OIC and of course the most gullible of them all, Los Paises Unidos. - UN. A lie repeated a thousand times becomes true. Now if they keep talking about Bangsamoro this and that........the UN and OIC just might make them into belligerents. Then the right to war without the tag name "insurgents & terrorists" will commence. They'll start to have the right to go to war with us, legally, with foreign support if necessary. You'll be starting to see blue helmets soon enough.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: hughdotoh on January 13, 2008, 12:24:18 AM
Already we have shades of those baby-blues: those damn Malaysian "military observers" who, if my old buddy were right, are more interested in going to Zamboanga for the local poon than monitoring that myth of a ceasefire.And the government has to quit this pretense of dealing with an an armed Islamic group; it is only building up on the story that there is indeed a separatist armed group down south, instead of just a bunch of heavily armed bodyguards of wannabe sultans.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Inspector on January 13, 2008, 01:45:14 AM
Quote from: hughdotoh on January 13, 2008, 12:00:35 AM
It's not a Muslim thing. It's not even about independence. It's a crowd of some clans wanting to lord it and fronting a claim for Islam. No identity crisis here, because there are Muslims who don't approve of the MILF.That bangsamoro word is being used by the rebels and also by their radical mass base supporters and by doing so i think youre giving them a favor on propaganda they are really trying hard to have that stick in everybodys mind obviously for psychological effect were as there is only filipino muslims, well im not sure nor correct but as far as i know no muslims want that moro word, if you want you can try go to NDU catholic college cotabato city most of whom are muslim students and try shout that word im sure you get mugged in no time.And yes there are muslims who dont support the milf in fact the afp got help and using them also in the war sometimes they even just stay on the sidelines in a conflict and let the warring clans finish off the rebel terrorist the milf is just but only one of the many armed groups they cant possible claim they can restore peace if the goverment gives in their demand nor representation of the filipino muslims.No wonder they the goverment are tolerating the security escorts status of these clans and the permits for the guns well maybe thats the downside of it because its also open to abuse many incidents inside disco house, resto bar and public hang outs where attribute to these not only in these city but also to other mindanao cities when they venture out bring along with them these irritating and annoying security escorts inside an urban city.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: texan on January 13, 2008, 06:15:40 AM
Quote from: mondo bizzaro on January 12, 2008, 11:44:37 PM
:jeez: The problem of educating and re-educating people. This is all because our moronic DECS or whatever it was called since 60 years ago DID NOT TEACH US PROPER & ACCURATE HISTORY. I'm gonna go home and beat Zaide...............!#$^#%&$%*%^*Zaide is way too dead mondo..I think his daughter took over , I remember Zaide's old picture from my history book he looked physically weak all you have to do is sneeze and he will piss and shit in his pants.
Quote
Quote from: count montedegallo on January 12, 2008, 11:52:59 pmthe claim that mindanao has always been a "territory" belonging to the Muslim tribal Filipinos is wrong and inaccurate.there are a lot of tribal and native peoples in mindanao that are NOT Muslim. tribal people like the mandayas, the manobos, the bagobos, even the people in north and south surigao are not and have never been muslims.the language of these people are close to or variants of what we call CEBUANO VISAYAN which is actually a MISNOMER because these people did not come from the physical island of Cebu. Such is the case also of the vast majority of OTHER so called CEBUANO-SPEAKING people in a vast area of mindanao: zamboanga del norte, zamboanga del sur, misamis oriental, misamis occidental, bukidnon, agusan del norte, agusan del sur, a greater part of lanao del norte, some parts of lanao del sur, davao oriental, davao occidental, davao del sur, the cotabato provinces - a vast majority of these people DID NOT COME FROM CEBU BUT ARE NATIVES OF MINDANAO!A lot of Filipinos make the mistake of grouping them under the category of CEBUANOS because they speak CEBUANO-VISAYAN WHICH IS A MISNOMER.The BISAYA (maragsa not malumi, as the Tagalogs incorrectly pronounce it) language (yes, it is a LANGUAGE) DID NOT come from the present province of CEBU but came from BORNEO which was the seat of the then Shri-Vishayan Empire (Empire of the Sari-Bisaya) thus the name Visayan or BISAYA (maragsa).So, when migrations from the Empire of Sari-Bisaya left Borneo, they came to settle in a lot of areas in present day Mindanao, Cebu, Bohol, Southern Leyte, Siquijor, Negros Oriental, some parts of Negros Occidental, and some parts of Masbate (I think). Even the Bicol language is more closely akin to Cebuano-Visayan than it is to Tagalog, not to mention Ilonggo or Hiligaynon.Bottom line: the Cebuano-Visayan speaking peoples of Mindanao are mostly NOT from Cebu but have always been NATIVES OF MINDANAO!You're quite right most of us cebuanos if we stumbled on others that speaks visayan we don't ask them if they are cebuanos but we politely ask if they are Bisaya. In the Visayan region each has its own proper form of expressing the Visayan language it might sound wierd to some but in any way we can still be able to communicate like the "Ludabi" for example some purists thought of it as the pure "unadulturated"cebuano language but even my generation have hard time comprehending some deep words, a friend of mine who dedicated himself in this "old" language can speak fluently and understand so in a way helped us translate into your modern visayan language.I can use some terms to this day but my visayan speaking friends wont be able to understand.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: mondo bizzaro on January 11, 2008, 05:43:41 AM
Makes me wonder how long can the MILF sustain a yearlong conventional warfare. Manila should take steps in curbing the movements of Muslims outside of Mindanao, and halt movement of civilian males going out of Mindanao if this happens. Secondly, they should look into converts who'll be surely joining in or do some stupid stuff like urban terrorism in the cities inside and outside of Mindanao. Not to infringe on their civil liberties per se regarding freedom of movement. But just not let them go back to Mindanao in case they'll be going there as reinforcements. Those of military age at least.Secondly, the government should really emphasize this as a constitutional conflict and not be dragged down to a "religious" conflict which the MILF would really just want it to be. Doing so would cater to every nutjob Islamist to wage a jihad against the Philippines. That's more dangerous than anything. Then lastly, the government should inform the world. That what these people are asking for is a chunk of land which is more than just historically and emotionally linked to both Muslims and Christians alike.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: pearl21 on January 11, 2008, 06:05:08 AM
the government should only resume the peace talk once this MILF start to recognized the Philippines Constitution.......or else stop negotiating with this people, they only want power for themselves they are not representing the whole Filipino Muslims.......i have had several Muslim friends and they dont advocate war, violence and separatism, they just want to leave peacefully on go on with their lives.......This early they are already showing their true color, their homeland (really?) its Filipino's homeland not for them only......
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: hughdotoh on January 11, 2008, 09:49:39 AM
"Moro Islamic" pretty much means "Maranao only." So they can waste each other's clans. It is neither Moro nor Islamic. Just a few clans with a common death wish.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: 40niner_com on January 11, 2008, 05:20:42 PM
Another angle...Muslims March For Peace In Mindanao (http://zamboangajournal.blogspot.com/2008/01/muslims-march-for-peace-in-mindanao.html)MARAWI CITY, Philippines (Mindanao Examiner / Jan. 11, 2008) – About 20,000 people marched in Marawi City as the second leg of a peace rally kicked off in southern Philippines. The marchers, many chanting “Allahu Akbar” which means “God is Great,” came from the provinces of Lanao del Sur and Lanao del Norte and converged at the Tomas Cabili Plaza in the village of Banggolo. They also carried streamers and banners and many wearing shirts printed with the word “Allahu Akbar.” (http://www.mindanaoexaminer.com/gallery/20080110225122_2.jpg)It was the second leg of the series of Mindanao-wide peace rally led by the Consortium of Bangsamoro Civil Society (CBCS), a network of 164 Moro civil society organizations in Mindanao. The Ranaw Regional Management Committee of CBCS, led by Aenodin Cali, organized the rally in Marawi. “The failure of peace agreements in the past can be attributed mainly to the non-participation of the Bangsamoro people, because non-participation means they do not own a peace agreement,” said Abdullah Dalidig, of the Islamic Movement for Electoral Reform and Good Governance (IMERGG) and Muslim Multi-sectoral Movement for Peace and Development (MMMPD). “As real stakeholders, their collective voice should be basis of authority and the last word in the solution of the problem.” “The consequences of war in Mindanao have been very painful and costly. More than 150,000 people died and 100,000 were estimated to be injured. Millions were displaced from their homes and several hundred thousands, including more than 200,000 Bangsamoro who sought refuge in the Malaysian State of Sabah have not returned home,” Dalidig said. Anwar Saluwang, deputy secretary-general of United Youth for Peace and Development (UNYPAD), an organization of Muslim youths based in Cotabato City called for the immediate return to the negotiating table of both the Philippine government and Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) peace panels. “We the Bangsamoro in Central Mindanao feel exactly what is felt by people in Ranaw. The Government should not wait for the Bangsamoro people to become the Bangsamoro Armed Forces,” he cited. Saluwang was there with the Marawi-based members of UNYPAD. The first leg of the peace rally was held in Cotabato City and participated by some 30,000 people from Maguindanao, Shariff Kabunsuan, and North Cotabato provinces. “The Bangsamoro does not belong to the MILF or the MNLF (Moro National Liberation Front) but the MILF and the MNLF belong to the Bangsamoro people,” said Sammy Maulana, Secretary-General of CBCS. The marchers urged the government and MILF peace negotiators to resume negotiations after talks stalled last month over the issue of the Muslim ancestral domain which will constitute a separate homeland in Mindanao. (With a report from Consortium Maulana)
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Ignatius1 on January 11, 2008, 05:29:04 PM
It is amazing how unashamedly tribal the mentality is in that region. I know the notion of progress is not the same for everyone; but goodness gracious! I remember reading about how unwelcome US forces are in the area because of "memories" from over a hundred years ago. Memories!! Another news article from BBC talked about wanting revenge!! It is definitely time to draw the line between those who want to live in peace as Filipinos and those who seek to live in conflict. The Philippines, from Batanes in the North to Jolo in the South, is and should always be for all Filipinos be they Tagalog, Ilocano, Visayan, or Bangsamoro!!Perhaps it is time for all Filipinos to deal with this issue once and for all. Let the issue be decided by force of arms between Filipinos and MILF separatists/thugs/criminals!!
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Ignatius1 on January 11, 2008, 05:36:39 PM
From Nonviolent Peaceforcehttp://www.nonviolentpeaceforce.org/cbcsjul2007STATEMENT OF UNITY AND SOLIDARITY:A CALL FOR PEACE, SOBRIETY AND RESTRAINTBismilahir Rahmanir Rahim.Assalamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Ta’ala Wabarakatuhu!When the Peace Talks was forged between the government and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF), the peoples of Mindanao subsequently became hopeful that a just and lasting peace would finally reign in their land.Bearing this common aspiration of the people in mind, both the GRP and the MILF peace panels strived hard to carry their respective mandates and missions to reach several milestones in the on-going peace process. Foremost among these is the Agreement on the General Cessation of Hostilities signed last July 18, 1997 at Cagayan De Oro City, which serves as the basic foundation of the peace talks. These milestones deserve appreciation.When the Peace Talks experienced an impasse, both the government and the MILF peace panels had asserted and assured the people that the mechanisms which have been jointly established on the ground have remained and will continue to remain in full force and effect.As stakeholders of peace, we have savored and treasured all the gains reached by the peace talks so far. As such, we have become morally and legally obligated to preserve these gains as our peace dividends and for the future generations.Like others, we are also saddened by the armed confrontation between the Armed Forces of the Philippines and the MILF Forces in Tipo-Tipo, Basilan on July 10, 2007. If only the military hierarchy had respected and abided by the Ceasefire Agreement, this painful, horrible and costly incident would never have taken place.As we join others in extending our empathy and heartfelt condolences to the bereaved family of Ustadz Matarul Hakim Alkanul, who was beheaded an hour prior to the military operations, and also to the families of the Marines who were killed in that encounter, we also declare our collective abhorrence to any terrorist action perpetrated against innocent civilians, specifically those in Tipo-Tipo, and vehemently condemn those who are responsible for both incidents in the highest manner!Like the Midsayap War in North Cotabato, the Tipo-Tipo Armed Encounter between the Armed Forces of the Philippines and the MILF Forces must be regarded and treated as an isolated case and must not erode the gains painstakingly attained by the GRP-MILF Peace Negotiations. It must not cripple the growing chance for a resumption of the GRP-MILF Peace Process and to eventually accomplish its mandate of seeking a viable solution to the centuries-old Mindanao conflict.We, the undersigned leaders of the Consortium of Bangsamoro Civil Society, Inc., therefore, make the following assertions with the highest conviction: 1. First, we call on the government to suspend any military action in Basilan and other parts of Mindanao and instead allow the GRP and MILF Coordinating Committee on the Cessation of Hostilities (CCCH) to immediately conduct an impartial probe on the incidents to identify the real perpetrators and bring them to the bar of justice, as per mandated by the GRP-MILF Ceasefire Agreement; 2. Second, to prevent the occurrence of this eventuality, we strongly urge HE Gloria Macapagal Arroyo in her dual capacity as “Civilian President” and “Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Philippines” to order the immediate pull-out of pursuing military troops, who are about to undertake “punitive actions” against the alleged perpetrators to diffuse tension, pre-empt the possible eruption of war, and avert its escalation to other parts of Mindanao, as well as the subsequent perpetration of widespread human rights violations; 3. Third, we also enjoin all Moro and Non-Moro civil society organizations and networks, the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines, the Bishops-Ulama Conference, concerned LGUs, as well as all other sectors of society who have a common vision of a just and lasting peace in Mindanao to unite themselves in urging the government to settle the Basilan Crisis in a civilized and peaceful manner; 4. Fourth, we issue this heartfelt appeal to our brothers and sisters in Luzon, Visayas and the rest of Mindanao to objectively understand the Basilan Crisis and the kidnapping of Fr. Bossi. Let us not to be derailed or unduly influenced by the unnecessary “sensationalization” of this issue by some parties with questionable interests. The Bangsamoro and the Filipinos have suffered enough from centuries-old animosities. Let us continue to build peace together in the Philippines in general and in Mindanao in particular; 5. Finally, we urge the international community, through their local embassies, to make diplomatic pressure on both the government and the MILF to exercise maximum restraint in order to avoid military actions that will endanger the peace process and further displace the communities from their economic and social base.Enough is enough! We cannot afford to add more Internally Displaced People in our homeland. They are still suffering from the aftermath of seemingly unending wars. We cannot anymore afford to increase the number of children of war and widows of wars, whose hearts still bleed and are still waiting for justice for the death of loved ones.Enough is enough! Onward with peace!Adopted and signed in Pagadian City, this 23rd day of July 2007.(Sgd.)NATHAN INSUNGChairperson, Regional Mgmt CommitteeCBCS – Zambas Region(Sgd.)SULTAN MAGUID A. MARUHOMChairperson, Regional Mgmt CommitteeCBCS – Sibugay Region(Sgd.)DATU AMENODIN T. CALIChairperson, Regional Mgmt CommitteeCBCS – Ranaw Region(Sgd.)TIMOJEN TULAWIEChairperson, Regional Mgmt CommitteeCBCS – Sulu Region(Sgd.)USTADZ RAHIB KUDTOChairperson, Regional Mgmt CommitteeCBCS – Kutawato Region(Sgd.)OSCAR SULAIMANChairperson, Regional Mgmt CommitteeCBCS – Rajah Buayan Region(Sgd.)SAMMY BUATChairperson, Regional Mgmt CommitteeCBCS – Dabaw Region(Sgd.)SAMMY P. MAULANAActing Secretary-General/Human Right and Justice OfficerCBCS Central OfficePagadian City23 July 2007CBCS/7/23/07The Consortium of Bangsamoro Civil society is a solidarity network of Bangsamoro NGOs and POs and other civil society organizations committed to a more sustained advocacy for Peace, Human Rights, Good Governance and Development. It is a network that engenders cooperation, collaboration and coordination among Moro civil society organizations in facing the challenges of creating a peaceful and just society.Note the item in bold. It seems they don't consider themselves Filipinos. If it is indeed the case - then I fear the situation will deteriorate into full scale civil war with Malaysia and Indonesia stepping in on behalf of the Bangsamoro. The GRP needs to effectively engage the US and Australia ASAP!!
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Adroth on January 11, 2008, 06:05:17 PM
Quote from: Ignatius1 on January 11, 2008, 05:36:39 PM
Note the item in bold. It seems they don't consider themselves Filipinos.In these people's minds, the term "Filipino" refers to the Christians in the north who were subjugated by the Spanish. They also consider the Christians living in the south as mere transients, who are simply waiting for the time or an incentive to return "home". A self-serving assertion that those of us who were born and grew up in Mindanao reject vehemently.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: mondo bizzaro on January 11, 2008, 07:05:22 PM
I lifted my own words from another tread with similar interests:THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BANGSAMORO!!!!There has never been a Moro Nation. There is what they call in Arabic - the "Ullemah" or Islamic nation - a kind of Islamic utopia in an abstract sense.MORO, again, is derived from the Spanish word which mean "moor" which is what they called the dark skinned Arabs and African Muslims that conquered the south of Spain which they called Andalusia. When the Spanish came to the Philippines and found that there's these small dark skinned Muslims - then the "moro" word came into use again.So the word in itself is supposed to be an insult - a derogatory term in the same course as the word "indio".Bangsamoro is a FAKE.It's a concept the so called "royalty & nobility" of the various warring Muslim tribes created to unite themselves. However selfish ambitions will never make this dream materialize.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: SIG_P210 on January 11, 2008, 07:52:49 PM
(Groan) Can we afford another war in Mindanao? What's so frustrating, is that w/ positive news here & there about development & the economy, there are just so many other POSITIVE things that could be done instead of doing something negative like going to war.Why the heck do the muslim people allow jackas_es in their society to continue to bully them to going their way of war? They can't keep tolerating those people, just because they are muslims also. THEY HAVE TO DRAW THE LINE. I wonder if some of Iraq's lessons could be applied in Mindanao in case of war. What worries me more, though, is the COST the war is going to cost. Money that could've been used better elsewhere, like Health, Education or Housing.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: philippinestoday on January 11, 2008, 09:47:13 PM
Quote from: SIG_P210 on January 11, 2008, 07:52:49 PM
(Groan) Can we afford another war in Mindanao? Today..I think Mindanao cannot afford a war..If during the 2000 war the MILF was eradicated, both its military and political organization then mindanao would not have the present problem it has.From the look of things the MILF problem here in mindanao has grown into other areas of society. first there is the MILF as the military arm, a political org (forgot the name), and this time a civilian organization that somehow has the support of all the tribes (maranao, et all)..But I do concur that when they say MORO its just the Maranao's..The maranao and tausugs are the hot headed tribes here..the tribe here in davao (not the immigrants, pointing out to the local muslim tribe) are not to keen in war, but since during and after the 2000 war, refugess from war torn areas immigrated here and assimilated to the society bringing in not only their families but also their culture and beliefs..and also more and more pirated VCD's/DVD's to davao. The problem with them is that the culture they have are governed by their religion..our's are free will..(correct me if im mistaken)in the article "Muslims March For Peace In Mindanao" there is just one statement that intrigues me
Quote
The Government should not wait for the Bangsamoro people to become the Bangsamoro Armed Forces,If they really want peace then they themselves should prevent themselves from being an armed group..and on the article "STATEMENT OF UNITY AND SOLIDARITY: A CALL FOR PEACE, SOBRIETY AND RESTRAINT"
Quote
1. First, we call on the government to suspend any military action in Basilan and other parts of Mindanao and instead allow the GRP and MILF Coordinating Committee on the Cessation of Hostilities (CCCH) to immediately conduct an impartial probe on the incidents to identify the real perpetrators and bring them to the bar of justice, as per mandated by the GRP-MILF Ceasefire Agreement; 2. Second, to prevent the occurrence of this eventuality, we strongly urge HE Gloria Macapagal Arroyo in her dual capacity as “Civilian President” and “Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Philippines” to order the immediate pull-out of pursuing military troops, who are about to undertake “punitive actions” against the alleged perpetrators to diffuse tension, pre-empt the possible eruption of war, and avert its escalation to other parts of Mindanao, as well as the subsequent perpetration of widespread human rights violations; 3. Third, we also enjoin all Moro and Non-Moro civil society organizations and networks, the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines, the Bishops-Ulama Conference, concerned LGUs, as well as all other sectors of society who have a common vision of a just and lasting peace in Mindanao to unite themselves in urging the government to settle the Basilan Crisis in a civilized and peaceful manner; 4. Fourth, we issue this heartfelt appeal to our brothers and sisters in Luzon, Visayas and the rest of Mindanao to objectively understand the Basilan Crisis and the kidnapping of Fr. Bossi. Let us not to be derailed or unduly influenced by the unnecessary “sensationalization” of this issue by some parties with questionable interests. The Bangsamoro and the Filipinos have suffered enough from centuries-old animosities. Let us continue to build peace together in the Philippines in general and in Mindanao in particular; 5. Finally, we urge the international community, through their local embassies, to make diplomatic pressure on both the government and the MILF to exercise maximum restraint in order to avoid military actions that will endanger the peace process and further displace the communities from their economic and social base.1. Looks like they cannot appeal to themselves to adhere to the Cease fire agreement. Because they are just asking the government, they should have also asked their own selves..2. Pulling the troops out cannot be done, because the military has a constitutional mandate to protect the country and its people. Regardless of religion or culture. And Mindanao is part of the republic, the areas controlled (somehow) by the MILF are part of the republic therefore it is the MILF that should pull out its forces and moved it out of the country..3. ...........4. Understand the kidnapping?? are they saying the we just forget about it? kidnapping regardless of its reason is still kidnapping..murder is still murder regardless of intentions. 5. Diplomatic pressure...?? They are very assuming..?!@# I think the government should educate the educated world on the real deal here in Mindanao..The foreign department should exhaust all means to let the world know what we are dealing with.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: count montedegallo on January 11, 2008, 10:11:28 PM
Quote
2. Second, to prevent the occurrence of this eventuality, we strongly urge HE Gloria Macapagal Arroyo in her dual capacity as “Civilian President” and “Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Philippines” to order the immediate pull-out of pursuing military troops, who are about to undertake “punitive actions” against the alleged perpetrators to diffuse tension, pre-empt the possible eruption of war, and avert its escalation to other parts of Mindanao, as well as the subsequent perpetration of widespread human rights violations;no. 2 looks very suspicious to me. without the afp troops there the rebel forces would just take over and do what they did before - harass the christian population and force everyone else to join them in their secessionist efforts. plus, the tribes would just explode into inter-tribal warfare again. the muslims in mindanao think they can govern themselves. the fact is they can't because there's one basic thing they can't even do, i.e., agree and live peacefully among themselves.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Inspector on January 11, 2008, 11:14:34 PM
Quote from: 40niner_com on January 11, 2008, 05:20:42 PM
b]The Ranaw Regional Management Committee of CBCS, led by Aenodin Cali, organized the rally in Marawi. “The failure of peace agreements in the past can be attributed mainly to the non-participation of the Bangsamoro people, because non-participation means they do not own a peace agreement,” said Abdullah Dalidig, of the Islamic Movement for Electoral Reform and Good Governance (IMERGG) and Muslim Multi-sectoral Movement for Peace and Development (MMMPD). “As real stakeholders, their collective voice should be basis of authority and the last word in the solution of the problem.” “The consequences of war in Mindanao have been very painful and costly. More than 150,000 people died and 100,000 were estimated to be injured. Millions were displaced from their homes and several hundred thousands, including more than 200,000 Bangsamoro who sought refuge in the Malaysian State of Sabah have not returned home,” Dalidig said. Anwar Saluwang, deputy secretary-general of United Youth for Peace and Development (UNYPAD), an organization of Muslim youths based in Cotabato City called for the immediate return to the negotiating table of both the Philippine government and Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) peace panels. “We the Bangsamoro in Central Mindanao feel exactly what is felt by people in Ranaw. The Government should not wait for the Bangsamoro people to become the Bangsamoro Armed Forces,” he cited. Saluwang was there with the Marawi-based members of UNYPAD. The first leg of the peace rally was held in Cotabato City and participated by some 30,000 people from Maguindanao, Shariff Kabunsuan, and North Cotabato provinces. “The Bangsamoro does not belong to the MILF or the MNLF (Moro National Liberation Front) but the MILF and the MNLF belong to the Bangsamoro people,” said Sammy Maulana, Secretary-General of CBCS. The marchers urged the government and MILF peace negotiators to resume negotiations after talks stalled last month over the issue of the Muslim ancestral domain which will constitute a separate homeland in Mindanao. (With a report from Consortium Maulana)Anak ng fufu 30,000 ka tao :eyes: oh really?the plaza is so small and yet its not full nor traffic was affected lucky for you people sema is the mayor if not get out of the town make your rally in marawi sama ninyo na si father mercado. Cotabato city is still a survivor it is still part of region 12 courtesy of ramos :afro: treachery many of whom voted him there.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Inspector on January 11, 2008, 11:27:13 PM
Quote from: mondo bizzaro on January 11, 2008, 05:43:41 AM
Makes me wonder how long can the MILF sustain a yearlong conventional warfare. Manila should take steps in curbing the movements of Muslims outside of Mindanao, and halt movement of civilian males going out of Mindanao if this happens. Secondly, they should look into converts who'll be surely joining in or do some stupid stuff like urban terrorism in the cities inside and outside of Mindanao. Not to infringe on their civil liberties per se regarding freedom of movement. But just not let them go back to Mindanao in case they'll be going there as reinforcements. Those of military age at least.Secondly, the government should really emphasize this as a constitutional conflict and not be dragged down to a "religious" conflict which the MILF would really just want it to be. Doing so would cater to every nutjob Islamist to wage a jihad against the Philippines. That's more dangerous than anything. Then lastly, the government should inform the world. That what these people are asking for is a chunk of land which is more than just historically and emotionally linked to both Muslims and Christians alike.that cant be they have rights you know just like all of us, besides that would alienate the majority of them who are just routine people.they are agitating their mass base support, its all part of diplomacy. the important question is did they re-arm , re-organize and to what extent if ever but seriously its doubtfull if they have significantly though they could have there are peace generals appointed in the area to apiece their clamor for more moderates and understanding afp officers.There are less encounters than before with less agressive military posture on them at least to the POV of some people like me.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: mondo bizzaro on January 11, 2008, 11:35:04 PM
Quote from: Inspector on January 11, 2008, 11:27:13 PM
that cant be they have rights you know just like all of us, besides that would alienate the majority of them who are just routine people.they are agitating their mass base support, its all part of diplomacy. the important question is did they re-arm , re-organize and to what extent if ever but seriously its doubtfull if they have significantly though they could have there are peace generals appointed in the area to apiece their clamor for more moderates and understanding afp officers.There are less encounters than before with less agressive military posture on them at least to the POV of some people like me.In a war, some things have to give in.
Quote
Not to infringe on their civil liberties per se regarding freedom of movement. But just not let them go back to Mindanao in case they'll be going there as reinforcements. Those of military age at least.
Quote from: Inspector on January 11, 2008, 11:14:34 PM
Anak ng fufu 30,000 ka tao :eyes: oh really?the plaza is so small and yet its not full nor traffic was affected lucky for you people sema is the mayor if not get out of the town make your rally in marawi sama ninyo na si father mercado. Cotabato city is still a survivor it is still part of region 12 courtesy of ramos :afro: treachery many of whom voted him there.Kindly ask this lady too. Leticia Ramos Shahani. She's got as much to do with selling Mindanao for votes as any other moron.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: israeli on January 12, 2008, 12:03:03 AM
i still do not get the logic of the GRP as to why it still talks peace with the never sincere Islamofascists. we keep on letting that venomous snake go half dead instead of killing it for good when we know for a fact that a half dead snake has a more powerful and more fatal venom. :angry:
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Pachada on January 12, 2008, 12:07:49 AM
relax guys,the milf, mnlf or ASG cannot wage sustained warfare without large stocks of ammo which comes from 2 sources:arms smuggled by sea or bought from corrupt AFP personnelseaborne arms smuggling is supposed to be taken cared of by coast watch south with surface radar stations watching the mindanao coastline. the mindanao coastline has better radar coverage than at anytime in the history of the moro rebellion although there are still gaps or loopholes thru which arms smugglers can pass through. hopefully , coast watch south will be fully implemented.all the govt has to do is continue speak softly(diplomacy) to the moros so that middle eastern countries and UN will think that we want peace, but at same time we must carry a big stick(coast watch south), and to continue winning over moderate moros by giving them jobs and opportunities(divide and rule) thereby isolating little by little those moros who want to resort to violent means. Patience is a virtue.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: israeli on January 12, 2008, 12:19:04 AM
we cannot be forever reactive, Pachada. we really have to annihilate the Islamofascists FOR GOOD, BY ALL MEANS AND AT ALL COSTS. if the world condemns us for annihilating the threats to the sovereignty of the Republic of the Philippines and its people, so be it.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: erwin_2lfu on January 12, 2008, 02:00:36 AM
Quote from: israeli on January 12, 2008, 12:19:04 AM
we cannot be forever reactive, Pachada. we really have to annihilate the Islamofascists FOR GOOD, BY ALL MEANS AND AT ALL COSTS. if the world condemns us for annihilating the threats to the sovereignty of the Republic of the Philippines and its people, so be it.Given the saber rattling of the MILF, its time for the government to show some teeth too.Let the Islamofascists cross the line......and lets see kung sino ang mapupulbos :2rifles:
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Inspector on January 12, 2008, 03:26:39 AM
Quote from: mondo bizzaro on January 11, 2008, 11:35:04 PM
In a war, some things have to give in. Kindly ask this lady too. Leticia Ramos Shahani. She's got as much to do with selling Mindanao for votes as any other moron. Good for you sir mondo bizyour precious davao is alive full with invesment and full of night life i wonder what would happen however unlikely if it will be incorporated in ARMMas another province or what maybe they can find enclaves where there are some majority.oh yes that lady ramos will also be rembered as up to no good anyway more like who make new name for mindanao, instead of plain mindanao it's now muslim mindanao or christian mindanao..etcc that ramos surname here will never be forgoten specially the people who are old enough to vote by 1996, he sold the city out to mnlf with a promise of general peace and development and the surrounding provinces. Many times of perennial plebicites have been brought on places they want to incorporate in the expanded ARMM which had 4 provinces only because many voted no including muslim majority areas when it was first conceive.Thru ramos political manuevering and pressure among local politicians many mnlf commanders won election including misuari thus a new beginnig of the larger ARMM but still many groups wont be satified even the mnlf itself which broke into 2 major factions and nobody will ever be.Even with an mnlf mayor Cotabato city have constantly voted no in the many plebicites that have been brought upon even after all its surrounding are now officialy under ARMM in fact its the regional capital although this city is outside of its jurisdiction, and its not vibrant like before in fact in the 90s it had 5 cinema now barely 2 were operating its geting boring everyday thats why most of its residents go to davao city or gensan for life styles. So were are the peace and development ramos promised, the thing is even you put murad there as governor with all the provinces he wants he cant possibly satisfy all the people out there especially the armed groups to lay down their arms and appoint them in juicy goverment positions or give them all the jobs.The one thing that curtles development is the proliferation of illegal firearms why dont just the goverment double or quadrouble its efforts and get it all.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: mondo bizzaro on January 12, 2008, 03:49:49 AM
Quote from: Inspector on January 12, 2008, 03:26:39 AM
Good for you sir mondo bizyour precious davao is alive full with invesment and full of night life i wonder what would happen however unlikely if it will be incorporated in ARMMas another province or what maybe they can find enclaves where there are some majority.oh yes that lady ramos will also be rembered as up to no good anyway more like who make new name for mindanao, instead of plain mindanao it's now muslim mindanao or christian mindanao..etcc that ramos surname here will never be forgoten specially the people who are old enough to vote by 1996, he sold the city out to mnlf with a promise of general peace and development and the surrounding provinces. Many times of perennial plebicites have been brought on places they want to incorporate in the expanded ARMM which had 4 provinces only because many voted no including muslim majority areas when it was first conceive.Thru ramos political manuevering and pressure among local politicians many mnlf commanders won election including misuari thus a new beginnig of the larger ARMM but still many groups wont be satified even the mnlf itself which broke into 2 major factions and nobody will ever be.Even with an mnlf mayor Cotabato city have constantly voted no in the many plebicites that have been brought upon even after all its surrounding are now officialy under ARMM in fact its the regional capital although this city is outside of its jurisdiction, and its not vibrant like before in fact in the 90s it had 5 cinema now barely 2 were operating its geting boring everyday thats why most of its residents go to davao city or gensan for life styles. So were are the peace and development ramos promised, the thing is even you put murad there as governor with all the provinces he wants he cant possibly satisfy all the people out there especially the armed groups to lay down their arms and appoint them in juicy goverment positions or give them all the jobs.The one thing that curtles development is the proliferation of illegal firearms why dont just the goverment double or quadrouble its efforts and get it all.Did you stop to think before you wrote about my precious succesful Davao that any escalating armed conflict will eventually affect it too as well as the whole country? My family alone is spread throughout Mindanao from Surigao to Zamboanga, including Cotabato and Bukidnon where 2 uncles own farms. Dont think of singling me out with half coherent ramblings. We all have suffered. How many times have I told this story of our land in Tagum being invaded by Muslim bandits same as with my uncle who lost 2 sons fighting the Muslims in Cotabato and Iligan that's besides another cousin losing a leg defending their property from theiving NPA. Our family is invested in Mindanao. Besides being born and raised there. My sisters own business in CDO and Cotabato. I own property in CDO & Davao. My mother owns land in Davao, Tagum, Cotabato, Pagadian and Misamis. We have as much to loose in a war. But to have a cowardly peace is even much more unbearable. No dude. You don't know where I'm coming from. Don't think that I'm a distant commentator becaues I'm abroad.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: predator on January 12, 2008, 04:05:30 AM
Quote from: erwin_2lfu on January 12, 2008, 02:00:36 AM
Given the saber rattling of the MILF, its time for the government to show some teeth too.Let the Islamofascists cross the line......and lets see kung sino ang mapupulbos :2rifles:Why wait? they've done it before ... I hope the govt will plan carefully like dictating the time of war ... like aquiring first the 6 night helicopters, increase AFP troops and other hardwares that in the pipeline ... before ending the PEACETALKS.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Inspector on January 12, 2008, 04:25:23 AM
ok SIR MoNdz no harm done besides its only a reply and i still dont get :shock: it how you got annoyed or upset.All those things you wrote well i just learned it as i read it today in the tread sowi. i my self have some sad stories but anyway its not the topic.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: SIG_P210 on January 12, 2008, 08:00:53 AM
Just curious, to the soldiers here in this forum, just an honest opinion: 1) If you were to go to war w/ the MILF / MNLF now, how would you go about it to get a decisive victory against them? 2) What additional resources will be needed to bring about that decisive victory?
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: citizend13 on January 12, 2008, 10:54:28 AM
Sir mondo I understand you completely. I was born in Davao city and raised in Tagum (wasn't a city yet back then) I have family all over the place (2 cousins are rangers) I have family in kidapawan city too. A war would put them all at risk and from my perspective that is unacceptable. However, if you think about it, all this crap wouldn't happen if the Government were decisive in it's actions. One year they launch an offensive the next year they go for peace talks then revert to war again. They should choose one path and stick to it until it no longer becomes viable. We've been having peace talks on and off for years.. Is it working? Obviously not! The two sides have been over and over the same issues again and have come to no conclusion.. The instability of the regions are stumping economic growth. Who would want to invest in land which is mired in conflict? If I put aside my feelings about my family being in danger, I would say the obvious choice is a full scale military offensive. Pursue them until they agree to disband/disarm. A well planned and well executed operation will probably succeed. (if I were a crazy general I'd bring the entire army, navy and airforce down there and use brute force) Down side is there would be a lot of fall out. Peace lovers would look for someone to crucify, There would be civilians displaced, there would be a lot of splinter groups who would take advantage of the situation and there would be a lot of dead bodies. they would probably claim that it is a religious conflict and thats a whole new ball game.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Ignatius1 on January 12, 2008, 12:33:57 PM
My Email to the CBCS Secretariat:I was reading with hopeful anticipation the Statement of Unity and Solidarity: A Call for Peace, Sobriety, and Restraint (Signed in Pagadian City on 23 July 2007). My hope turned to dismay when I reached this line in assertion number four: "The Bangsamoro and the Filipinos have suffered enough from centuries-old animosities."It appears that the Bangsamoro do not consider themselves Filipinos. No wonder there has not been peace. Filipino Soldiers and Marines have been fighting in Mindanao for Filipinos - which I think they sincerely believe includes the Bangsamoro. It would probably help if this identity crisis be clarified. I think it would cause a paradigm shift - hopefully towards a unified Filipino nation (Luzon, Visayas, and Mindanao).Wishing For Peace,Ignatius LoyolaTheir Response:Greetings of peace! We appreciate your astute observation. That is correct. The Bangsamoro people has an "aversion" to being identified as part of the Filipino body politic. It is because the Bangsamoro never felt a sense of belongingness of being part of the citizenry of the Philippines from the very start. If you would just look carefully at the historical background why such a view is commonly carried by the Bangsamoro people, you would see and appreciate that, from the Spanish colonization period, to the American colonization period, to the period of independence, and upto the present contemporary time, the Bangsamoro people have always been short changed, marginalized and treated as second class citizens of this country, much in the same way as the negroes were treated by the whites in the USA and in South Africa. At the time that the USA had planned to give the Philippines its independence in the late 1940's, the Bangsamoro had made several declarations calling for the retainment of Mindanao as a colony of the US. It was generally preferred to remain a colony and be given its own independence later on, than be lumped as one with Luzon and Visayas. One such declaration is the Dansalan Declaration. This and many others are proof enough that the Bangsamoro do not identify themselves as Filipionos. Mindanao historically belongs to the Bangsamoro people. They are endemic to this land. They had a thriving civilization here centuries prior to colonization. Their sovereignty is legitimate. Now like the North American Indian tribes, their lands have been taken away from them. Their ancestral domain is now settled in by the majority, whether by subterfuge, coercion, blackmail. Without their consent and knowledge, their lands were titled and mostly redistributed to the Filipinos from Luzon and Visayas. And now multinational corporations had also taken over most of the lands of Mindanao. All of these in the name of a culturally insensitive and popularly unresponsive push for "development." Their right to live their lives according to their culture as an indigenous people, their right to live in peace in their homeland as Muslims, and their right to freely determine on their own the direction towards which they would like to go, has been deprived from them. Their way of life as Muslims has long been under threat. The Bangsamoro have no aversion against development. As long as development is introduced in such as way as their cultural identity as indigenous peoples of Mindanao and their way of life as Muslims are respected and protected. But this has not been the case for centuries now. Hence, their centuries long struggle. In conclusion, the Bangsamoro would like to keep their identity intact, if nobody would mind. They had been working and even fighting for its preservation for centuries. And they more than deserve to keep it. Besides, the name of the country, "Philippines" is not quite a good name. This country was named after a bad Spanish king. (Philip II). So therefore, it can be imputed in one way that the "Filipinos" are people of that bad Spanish king. The burden of having an identity crisis is not on the Bangsamoro. It is on the Filipino. Thank you and more power. CBCS Secretariat
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: monsy on January 12, 2008, 01:22:39 PM
Quote from: Ignatius1 on January 12, 2008, 12:33:57 PM
Besides, the name of the country, "Philippines" is not quite a good name. This country was named after a bad Spanish king. (Philip II). So therefore, it can be imputed in one way that the "Filipinos" are people of that bad Spanish king. The burden of having an identity crisis is not on the Bangsamoro. It is on the Filipino.well, we can always change the name, say PINOYKISTAN? :Dseriously, what do you think of the possibility that there will be an independent muslim state in mindanao? from my little knowledge of mindanao christians is still the majority, but most of them came from visayas and luzon. in other words they are not the original inhabitants there. what i feared most is a east timor style intervention of the international community. what do you think guys?
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: count montedegallo on January 12, 2008, 09:52:59 PM
the claim that mindanao has always been a "territory" belonging to the Muslim tribal Filipinos is wrong and inaccurate.there are a lot of tribal and native peoples in mindanao that are NOT Muslim. tribal people like the mandayas, the manobos, the bagobos, even the people in north and south surigao are not and have never been muslims.the language of these people are close to or variants of what we call CEBUANO VISAYAN which is actually a MISNOMER because these people did not come from the physical island of Cebu. Such is the case also of the vast majority of OTHER so called CEBUANO-SPEAKING people in a vast area of mindanao: zamboanga del norte, zamboanga del sur, misamis oriental, misamis occidental, bukidnon, agusan del norte, agusan del sur, a greater part of lanao del norte, some parts of lanao del sur, davao oriental, davao occidental, davao del sur, the cotabato provinces - a vast majority of these people DID NOT COME FROM CEBU BUT ARE NATIVES OF MINDANAO!A lot of Filipinos make the mistake of grouping them under the category of CEBUANOS because they speak CEBUANO-VISAYAN WHICH IS A MISNOMER.The BISAYA (maragsa not malumi, as the Tagalogs incorrectly pronounce it) language (yes, it is a LANGUAGE) DID NOT come from the present province of CEBU but came from BORNEO which was the seat of the then Shri-Vishayan Empire (Empire of the Sari-Bisaya) thus the name Visayan or BISAYA (maragsa).So, when migrations from the Empire of Sari-Bisaya left Borneo, they came to settle in a lot of areas in present day Mindanao, Cebu, Bohol, Southern Leyte, Siquijor, Negros Oriental, some parts of Negros Occidental, and some parts of Masbate (I think). Even the Bicol language is more closely akin to Cebuano-Visayan than it is to Tagalog, not to mention Ilonggo or Hiligaynon.Bottom line: the Cebuano-Visayan speaking peoples of Mindanao are mostly NOT from Cebu but have always been NATIVES OF MINDANAO!
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: mavewrick2007 on January 12, 2008, 09:56:26 PM
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The burden of having an identity crisis is not on the Bangsamoro. It is on the Filipino.Who ??? me !! no way...Still a full blooded Pinoy.. :2pistols: :2pistols:
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: mavewrick2007 on January 12, 2008, 10:42:11 PM
Clash of civilization in our backyard . Let them govern for themselves since Muslims normally followed Islamic laws. But first we have to amend our form of government to federal republic.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: mondo bizzaro on January 12, 2008, 11:44:37 PM
Quote from: count montedegallo on January 12, 2008, 09:52:59 PM
the claim that mindanao has always been a "territory" belonging to the Muslim tribal Filipinos is wrong and inaccurate.there are a lot of tribal and native peoples in mindanao that are NOT Muslim. tribal people like the mandayas, the manobos, the bagobos, even the people in north and south surigao are not and have never been muslims.the language of these people are close to or variants of what we call CEBUANO VISAYAN which is actually a MISNOMER because these people did not come from the physical island of Cebu. Such is the case also of the vast majority of OTHER so called CEBUANO-SPEAKING people in a vast area of mindanao: zamboanga del norte, zamboanga del sur, misamis oriental, misamis occidental, bukidnon, agusan del norte, agusan del sur, a greater part of lanao del norte, some parts of lanao del sur, davao oriental, davao occidental, davao del sur, the cotabato provinces - a vast majority of these people DID NOT COME FROM CEBU BUT ARE NATIVES OF MINDANAO!A lot of Filipinos make the mistake of grouping them under the category of CEBUANOS because they speak CEBUANO-VISAYAN WHICH IS A MISNOMER.The BISAYA (maragsa not malumi, as the Tagalogs incorrectly pronounce it) language (yes, it is a LANGUAGE) DID NOT come from the present province of CEBU but came from BORNEO which was the seat of the then Shri-Vishayan Empire (Empire of the Sari-Bisaya) thus the name Visayan or BISAYA (maragsa).So, when migrations from the Empire of Sari-Bisaya left Borneo, they came to settle in a lot of areas in present day Mindanao, Cebu, Bohol, Southern Leyte, Siquijor, Negros Oriental, some parts of Negros Occidental, and some parts of Masbate (I think). Even the Bicol language is more closely akin to Cebuano-Visayan than it is to Tagalog, not to mention Ilonggo or Hiligaynon.Bottom line: the Cebuano-Visayan speaking peoples of Mindanao are mostly NOT from Cebu but have always been NATIVES OF MINDANAO! :jeez: The problem of educating and re-educating people. This is all because our moronic DECS or whatever it was called since 60 years ago DID NOT TEACH US PROPER & ACCURATE HISTORY. I'm gonna go home and beat Zaide...............!#$^#%&$%*%^*
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: hughdotoh on January 13, 2008, 12:00:35 AM
It's not a Muslim thing. It's not even about independence. It's a crowd of some clans wanting to lord it and fronting a claim for Islam. No identity crisis here, because there are Muslims who don't approve of the MILF.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: mondo bizzaro on January 13, 2008, 12:07:33 AM
Quote from: hughdotoh on January 13, 2008, 12:00:35 AM
It's not a Muslim thing. It's not even about independence. It's a crowd of some clans wanting to lord it and fronting a claim for Islam. No identity crisis here, because there are Muslims who don't approve of the MILF.It's not really about us. It's about the world community who will judge our actions. So far, the "BANGSAMOROns" are quite successful selling their fairytale to the outside like the rest of the OIC and of course the most gullible of them all, Los Paises Unidos. - UN. A lie repeated a thousand times becomes true. Now if they keep talking about Bangsamoro this and that........the UN and OIC just might make them into belligerents. Then the right to war without the tag name "insurgents & terrorists" will commence. They'll start to have the right to go to war with us, legally, with foreign support if necessary. You'll be starting to see blue helmets soon enough.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: hughdotoh on January 13, 2008, 12:24:18 AM
Already we have shades of those baby-blues: those damn Malaysian "military observers" who, if my old buddy were right, are more interested in going to Zamboanga for the local poon than monitoring that myth of a ceasefire.And the government has to quit this pretense of dealing with an an armed Islamic group; it is only building up on the story that there is indeed a separatist armed group down south, instead of just a bunch of heavily armed bodyguards of wannabe sultans.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: Inspector on January 13, 2008, 01:45:14 AM
Quote from: hughdotoh on January 13, 2008, 12:00:35 AM
It's not a Muslim thing. It's not even about independence. It's a crowd of some clans wanting to lord it and fronting a claim for Islam. No identity crisis here, because there are Muslims who don't approve of the MILF.That bangsamoro word is being used by the rebels and also by their radical mass base supporters and by doing so i think youre giving them a favor on propaganda they are really trying hard to have that stick in everybodys mind obviously for psychological effect were as there is only filipino muslims, well im not sure nor correct but as far as i know no muslims want that moro word, if you want you can try go to NDU catholic college cotabato city most of whom are muslim students and try shout that word im sure you get mugged in no time.And yes there are muslims who dont support the milf in fact the afp got help and using them also in the war sometimes they even just stay on the sidelines in a conflict and let the warring clans finish off the rebel terrorist the milf is just but only one of the many armed groups they cant possible claim they can restore peace if the goverment gives in their demand nor representation of the filipino muslims.No wonder they the goverment are tolerating the security escorts status of these clans and the permits for the guns well maybe thats the downside of it because its also open to abuse many incidents inside disco house, resto bar and public hang outs where attribute to these not only in these city but also to other mindanao cities when they venture out bring along with them these irritating and annoying security escorts inside an urban city.
Title: Re: Philippines: Largest Muslim rebel group 'on a war footing' Post by: texan on January 13, 2008, 06:15:40 AM
Quote from: mondo bizzaro on January 12, 2008, 11:44:37 PM
:jeez: The problem of educating and re-educating people. This is all because our moronic DECS or whatever it was called since 60 years ago DID NOT TEACH US PROPER & ACCURATE HISTORY. I'm gonna go home and beat Zaide...............!#$^#%&$%*%^*Zaide is way too dead mondo..I think his daughter took over , I remember Zaide's old picture from my history book he looked physically weak all you have to do is sneeze and he will piss and shit in his pants.
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Quote from: count montedegallo on January 12, 2008, 11:52:59 pmthe claim that mindanao has always been a "territory" belonging to the Muslim tribal Filipinos is wrong and inaccurate.there are a lot of tribal and native peoples in mindanao that are NOT Muslim. tribal people like the mandayas, the manobos, the bagobos, even the people in north and south surigao are not and have never been muslims.the language of these people are close to or variants of what we call CEBUANO VISAYAN which is actually a MISNOMER because these people did not come from the physical island of Cebu. Such is the case also of the vast majority of OTHER so called CEBUANO-SPEAKING people in a vast area of mindanao: zamboanga del norte, zamboanga del sur, misamis oriental, misamis occidental, bukidnon, agusan del norte, agusan del sur, a greater part of lanao del norte, some parts of lanao del sur, davao oriental, davao occidental, davao del sur, the cotabato provinces - a vast majority of these people DID NOT COME FROM CEBU BUT ARE NATIVES OF MINDANAO!A lot of Filipinos make the mistake of grouping them under the category of CEBUANOS because they speak CEBUANO-VISAYAN WHICH IS A MISNOMER.The BISAYA (maragsa not malumi, as the Tagalogs incorrectly pronounce it) language (yes, it is a LANGUAGE) DID NOT come from the present province of CEBU but came from BORNEO which was the seat of the then Shri-Vishayan Empire (Empire of the Sari-Bisaya) thus the name Visayan or BISAYA (maragsa).So, when migrations from the Empire of Sari-Bisaya left Borneo, they came to settle in a lot of areas in present day Mindanao, Cebu, Bohol, Southern Leyte, Siquijor, Negros Oriental, some parts of Negros Occidental, and some parts of Masbate (I think). Even the Bicol language is more closely akin to Cebuano-Visayan than it is to Tagalog, not to mention Ilonggo or Hiligaynon.Bottom line: the Cebuano-Visayan speaking peoples of Mindanao are mostly NOT from Cebu but have always been NATIVES OF MINDANAO!You're quite right most of us cebuanos if we stumbled on others that speaks visayan we don't ask them if they are cebuanos but we politely ask if they are Bisaya. In the Visayan region each has its own proper form of expressing the Visayan language it might sound wierd to some but in any way we can still be able to communicate like the "Ludabi" for example some purists thought of it as the pure "unadulturated"cebuano language but even my generation have hard time comprehending some deep words, a friend of mine who dedicated himself in this "old" language can speak fluently and understand so in a way helped us translate into your modern visayan language.I can use some terms to this day but my visayan speaking friends wont be able to understand.
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